Tonight Maurice Coleman, Jill Hurst-Wahl, Tom Haymes, and Paul Signorelli were joined by Ken Phillips (Phillips Associates). Ken is known as a go-to person for evaluation and assessment. He got into this area through his work in performance management.

He talked about the levels of evaluation, noting that there is a five level evaluation model (see resources). An important point is to think about the assessment questions from the learners perspective, rather than from the institution’s perspective.

We dug deep into this topic! Lots of useful information in the recording and in the resources below.  Most of this applies to training and learning done within organizations, rather than academic institutions.  However, academics will hear ideas that they can use.

Listen to this episode on TalkShoe or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Model In Practice

The Model in Practice


Silent Dance PartyOn this T is for Training, we were joined by Rita Bailey, Elaine Biech, and Sardek Love. They joined “usual suspects” Tom Haymes, Jill Hurst-Wahl, Paul Signorelli, Diane Huckabay, and Maurice Coleman. Rita, Elaine, Sardek, and Paul were presenters at the recent Association for Talent Development (ATD) International Conference & EXPO in Salt Lake City. We began with them talking about how the conference sessions were setup, which was very different than normal because of COVID protocols. How did the adapt? How did they engage people? How were they cautious? How did they experiment? Ah…and the power of grace!

You can listen to this episode on TalkShoe and on your favorite podcasting platform.

** The photo above relates to the headset story that was told in this episode.  However, what you see in that photo is a silent dance party, where people could tune into different types of music. Do you get the connection to ATD?

On this show, Ruben Puentedura, Founder/President of Hippasus ( and innovator in residence at ShapingEDU, joined Tom Haymes, Paul Signorelli, Jill Hurst-Wahl, and Maurice Coleman. Ruben started by talking about black swan events, which is something he has been focusing on for ShapingEDU in terms of education and training. Black swan events are unforeseen and catastrophic, yet they make sense in hindsight. How does that event lead to new ideas? (See the SAMR model below) Black swan events are definitely stress tests!

We delved into different areas related to antifragility and black swan events. We also talked about the difference between sustainability and antifragility. According to Ruben, “Sustainability refers more to day-to-day challenges; anti fragility refers more to Black Swan-type situations.” Sustainability needs to be in place for antifragility to occur.

We ended the show talking about gamifying learning and setting up a system that is antifragile from the viewpoint of the student.

The notes above do not do this episode justice. We went deep!  And given the topic, we think many institutions should listen to this episode…so…pass it on to your colleagues!


BTW T is for Training celebrated its 13th anniversary today and is now a teenager!


The SAMR Model


Whether you’re a long-time supporter of T is for Training or new to the game/program, you’ll want to check out our episodes for September 2021.

Thursday, September 9, 2021, 9 pm ET/6 pm PT—Long-time T is for Training Usual Suspect Tom Haymes and our colleague Ruben Puentedura, Founder/President of Hippasus ( are joining us for a discussion about how we can help our learners map their learning experience according to their learning needs. The background, from Tom: Most students don’t get to map out their learning journeys. They choose a course of study, some courses within that course of study, but beyond that, the courses give them a normative set of skills. More than a decade ago, Wayne Brent of the University of Arizona mapped out a system ( for his graduate program in instructional design students that allowed them to accumulate points in the manner of a role-playing-game. This system gave them the agency to practice particular skills they wanted to sharpen. In this way, he allowed his students to map their learning experience according to their learning needs, not the predefined needs of the program or course. Hope you’ll join us for the discussion.

Thursday, September 23, 2021, 9 pm ET/6 pm PT—Rita Bailey, Sardek Love, and Paul Signorelli were among the trainer-teacher-learners traveling to Salt Lake City for the 2021 ATD (Association for Talent Development) International Conference & Exposition earlier this month to facilitate their first onsite learning sessions since the pandemic began. What they found was a dynamic, much-changed learning environment grounded in social-distancing practices that required a bit of pivoting to keep their sessions highly-interactive and engaging. Join us for this discussion of what trainer-teacher-learners need to know about facilitating onsite learning in the pandemic era.

–Posted by Paul Signorelli

4748 days ago, the first T is for Training happened. I had an idea to start a podcast for library trainers, since we were usually the lone wolf’s in our places of work.

It was a pilot show with three friends, Beth, Bobbi and Jennifer, and we talked about 23 Things and learning while playing (remember that?), Active Shooter Training (unfortunately still needed) and a Trainer Bi*ch Session (also still needed.) With show links of *RIP*

Also, the very cool Trainer’s Alphabet was discussed on FriendFeed (RIP) Here is a link to the two August 2008 posts about the pilot show and the Trainer’s Alphabet. August 2008 T is for Training Posts

Unfortunately, those older shows, along with the first 150 episodes or so, are lost in the ether.If you happen to have any copies of our older shows, drop us a line!

This show as survived MANY changes. Life changes. Job Changes. Support Changes. But we still try to do something useful every two weeks (most of the time.)

The real first show took place on September 12th, 2008. But the show on August 29th is the first place T is for Training happened.

It has been a long and fun thirteen years and counting.

Thank all (five) of you for listening, and I hope you all continue to support us with your kind words and thoughts.

Also JOIN US on a Thursday night. You know you want to…

Tonight Maurice, Paul, Tom and Jill were joined by James Richardson. Richardson is a Sacramento-based writer, farmhand, Episcopal priest, and a former newspaper colleague of Paul’s at The UCLA Daily Bruin. His story about how he moved from full-time work as a journalist to being a minister by learning to move “from no to yes.” Richardson has continued to write, including a book on Willie Brown and has a second book coming out next year (The Abolitionist’s Journal: The Memories of an Anti-Slavery Family is the working title). We talked about going from no to yes in training, other aspects of our lives, and in institutions. Why are people resistant to change? What in their immunity system is stopping them?

BTW this episode connects well with our conversation with Sardek Love (episode 283).

Best quote: The is nothing so tragic as when a beautiful theory meets a bloody fact.

Richardson and crewListen to this episode on Talkshoe or wherever you get your podcasts.


Clark QuinnOn tonight’s show was Maurice Coleman, Paul Signorelli, Jill Hurst-Wahl, Diane Huckabay, Tom Haymes, and our guest, Clark Quinn, a frequent author. Quinn came to talk about his new book, Learning Science for Instructional Designers: From Cognition to Application (released in April 2021).  This book is for a broad range of people beyond instructional designers, including coaches and parents. He wants people, who read the book to be able to create learning experiences for themselves and others that help people achieve the learning they want.
We talked about sections of the book, developing training (classes) in academic institutions, and creating training in libraries.  One thing that came up was that a training session may not be what is needed. For example, would a job aid be better?  And what happens after the training to reinforce what they needed from the training?
Great quote from the book (p. 20):
we can facilitate, or hinder, comprehension by the choices we make.
Clark Quinn is always a wonderful guest! And this show was as packed with information as his latest book. Give it a listen, the buy the book.

John Cotton Dana AwardNeither beltway traffic or malfunctioning router could keep Maurice Coleman, Paul Signorelli, Diane Huckabay, Tom Haymes and Jill Hurst-Wahl from a lively T is for Training. We talked about the award Jill is receiving from the Special Libraries Association on Aug. 3 for “lifetime of achievement as well as exceptional service to SLA and the library and information profession.” This lead to a conversation on the impact of volunteering on a person’s life and career. We told stories and gave tips.  Take a listen!


Addendum (07/30/2021): In the episode, Jill mentioned Sylvia Piggott. While Sylvia spent many years of her life in Montreal, her last name was not French, so Jill should have pronounced the T’s. Sylvia and her husband were originally from Jamaica.

David LankesMaurice, Paul and Jill welcomed R. David Lankes, who is the author of the newly-released book Forged in War: How a Century of War Created Today’s Information Society. The book is focused on data and media. We began  our conversation by talking about how Dave was inspired to write this book, which goes back to when he joined University of South Carolina. He realized that his school contained two programs – journalism and library science – which merged data, media and society.  The seeds of Forged in War began then.

The ah-ha moment for him – and what got him writing – was during COVID-19 and realization that we kept using war-related messaging. That got him thinking about the language we use and what is behind it. A lot of the information field was born during times of conflicts. That starting point drove him to dug into the history of information use, the development of technology, and the business models around them.

By telling an interesting historical story, Dave hoped to get people to think about the issues we are facing now.  His view of history, information, data, and journalism led us on an intense, interesting, and educational conversation. Too much to note here (although you should know about epistemicide). You must listen to this episode!

Our next T is for Training will be in July 29 at 9 p.m. ET. Please join us!

Four people on T is for Training

Although there will be no recording of T is for Training this evening (brief holiday break to give Maurice Coleman, our Cat Herder in Chief a chance to spend time with family), there is quite a nice line-up for July/August 2021 on T is for Training:

Thursday, July 15, 20219 pm ET/6 pm PT–R. David Lankes, author of the newly-released Forged in War: How a Century of War Created Today’s Information Society, will join us for a discussion about what trainer-teacher-learners can learn from the book.

Jill Hurst-Wahl

Thursday, July 29, 20219 pm ET/6 pm PT–Our own Jill Hurst-Wahl, who will receive the Special Libraries Association’s John Cotton Dana lifetime-achievement recognition award in a public online ceremony August 3 and who has posted a set of reflections on her blog (“Personal Good News and Contributing to Your Profession”), will be with us for a conversation about volunteerism, professional development, and training-teaching-learning.

Thursday, August 12, 20219 pm ET/6 pm PT–Clark Quinn, who has been with us for some great conversations over the past few years, returns for a discussion about Learning Science for Instructional Designers: From Cognition to Application (released in April 2021).

James Richardson

Thursday, August 26, 20219 pm ET/6 pm PT–James Richardson, a Sacramento-based “writer, farmhand, Episcopal priest,” will join us for a conversation about getting from no to yes in training-teaching-learning. There is, of course, a backstory here: Jim and I worked together at The UCLA Daily Bruin a couple of lifetimes ago; we recently reconnected, and his story about how he moved from full-time work as a journalist to being a minister by learning to move “from no to yes” struck me as being a wonderful jumping off point for this episode of T is for Training. And yes, he continues to write: he has an amazing book (his second) coming out next year: “The Abolitionist’s Journal, due for release in fall 2022, is the story of his anti-slavery ancestor who used his house on the Underground Railroad, served as the white chaplain to a Black Union regiment in the Civil War, and then with his family founded a college for the freed slaves in Austin, Texas (Samuel Huston College).”

–Posted by Paul Signorelli

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